I really, honestly, to the depth of my soul find it straight-up bizarre that no one at the majors has looked at the success of indies and not tried to improve how they conduct their own business. Building your brand should not be something that needs to be explained to people in charge of a company.

Every successful record on an indie is a record that should have been sold by a major.

As for the poster, no one who is invaluable is ever fired...just those whom a company can stand to lose.

but 2008 will see The Cure, a proper Weezer release, Ashlee Simpson, Counting Crows...

I'll admit, I've never heard of Matt White, Prima J, Janel Parrish, NLT, Kate Nash, or Ray Lavender (and about 20 others) but 2008 will see The Cure, a proper Weezer release, Ashlee Simpson, Counting Crows...

The only brand a major should be building is each of their artists.

I guess anyone can really say anything they want now and we will all just go along with it.

In that case, Winona Ryder swiped a twenty from my nightstand when she left my house this morning, smelling of all kinds of freaky wrongness.

once again, geffen is going down... an imprint at best in the new year... too bad... ron fair cost 90 people their jobs!

The only brand a major should be building is each of their artists. Punters don't care if an artist is on Columbia, Virgin or Geffen, and taking time and effort to highlight

As for the idea of 90 people working for Geffen, that's impossible. I could be totally off base here, but I thought they reactivated the imprint as a vanity label to keep Ron Fair, with much of the work being covered within Interscope. Perhaps they're letting people go company wide?

I'm pretty sure the only reason A and M exists is at all is to wave at the agreements with Alpert and Moss which require them to maintain it as an operating label.

Of courase...if THATs what an operating label looks like, a mercy killing might be in order.

Mary J. Blige should sell, regardless of VR opinion of her 1st single. The Rivers Cuomo demo cd won't sell tonnage, but it couldn't have cost anything to make, they were home demos some dating back to 92...pure profit (sans the production and limited marketing).

I'll admit, I've never heard of Matt White, Prima J, Janel Parrish, NLT, Kate Nash, or Ray Lavender (and about 20 others) but 2008 will see The Cure, a proper Weezer release, Ashlee Simpson, Counting Crows...

As for the poster, no one who is invaluable is ever fired...just those whom a company can stand to lose.

In that case, Winona Ryder swiped a twenty from my nightstand when she left my house this morning, smelling of all kinds of freaky wrongness.

No fair. A good explanation isn't the same as the truth, which is far from a good explantion. So, what you are sponsoring is a fiction writing contest?

The man wants to be an artist. He puts himself in the videos and wants to be in the media any chance he gets.

ps. I don't know Ron that well, but he named his son Ellington, and that's pretty friggin' cool with me!

Judging from all of the Ron Fair bashing I would say that there are drawbacks to having a Producer run a label too!

For years creative community types have been clamouring to let a "creative" person run a label, as more often that, not when the bean-counters or promo men run them, you get wacky concepts like disco music and horrendous A&R signings.

I guess the river flows in both directions.

A&M and Geffen have been doomed to failure because there is no Alpert, Moss or Geffen around to steer the ship.

Plain and simple.

I am not sure about Geffen as a label having to be legally kept alive, but as far as A&M goes, I know for a fact that, Alpert and Moss will get a huge additional payout, I believe of over $100/250 Million dollars if Universal shudders the imprint.

Nice deal if you can get it!

ps. I don't know Ron that well, but he named his son Ellington, and that's pretty friggin' cool with me!

ps. I don't know Ron that well, but he named his son Ellington, and that's pretty friggin' cool with me!

Perhaps, but not as cool as Scarborough, State or County would have been.

What would have been really hip would be to name the kid "Strayhorn."

Makes a great Christmas gift if it does.

It would then be uberhip to name the kid "Irving Mills", that's just loaded with detatched, pomo irony. And, it would make the kid sound like an outlet mall.

I worked with Ron at RCA years ago and even though I personally like him those same criticisms where there. Remember Wild Orchid anyone?

I worked with Ron at RCA years ago and even though I personally like him those same criticisms where there. Remember Wild Orchid anyone?

I don't think it's fair to wholesale bash Ron.

Looking at him from an A&R perspective, well, he delivers. Whether any of us jaded folks likes the music is irrelevant.

The issue here is giving him a staff. He's not the guy for that.

I think if we are to take anyone to task it should be the people who gave the green light on that. Big Bob knew what he was dealing with at RCA and acted accordingly which is why Ron left. But, the Steve Ross plan that Doug has instituted at Universal just isn't right for some people.

That weak point shouldn't take away from the fact that he's personally responsible for a good amount of revenue and like it or not we will see a lot of songs he's made on greatest hits of the decade infomercials in 20 years.

20 years?!?! Razor & Tie is probably angling for the licensing now! They've already released packages with songs from earlier this decade... and catalog sales are in the toilet, so why hold back on licensing the hits once the albums stop selling?

We wouldn't be having this discussion if he didn't have one lucky record at RCA. Too bad he didn't bring Ron Urban with him, then this thread could be a hilarious clusterfuck comentary.

If ShitTone wasn't designed as the classic spend down to fuck an egomaniac out of the paying off on his points, I don't know what was.

OF COURSE! Where do you think he plucked Fergie from?!

Actually, doesn't he have a piece of a document shredding business as well?

Ron may be a "music" man, but I don't believe for one minute he actually produced the records you mentioned all by himself. His style is to take an existing track that some poor no name producer created, add a little something to it (nine times out of ten - strings), and then somehow his name ends up as a producer on that song. Since Ron runs a label, the artists feel obligated and forced to allow him to do this, and the ones that don't, he doesn't support.

That being said, I understand why someone from the outside thinks this man is actually talented. He steals the limelight from the people who actually do the work. In his 30+ years in the industry, he may have lucked up once or twice with an artist or a hit record (if he really did it himself), but that is certainly not an impressive track record.

The sad part of this whole thing is that he will continue to have a job while the smart and good people get laid off. I'm sure the plan is to strip Ron of his powers and just stick him in a studio somewhere where he will continue to "fix" records.

What can I say, I actually have the utmost respect for a music man who actually knows about music. I like seeing someone who started out as a musician themselves and then moved on to producing demos succeed.

Yup.

I can't speak for his personality, and I really don't care if he's naughty or nice.

Business rewards 1 thing: RESULTS.

As an A&R man he got em. As a label 'head' eh, not so much.

But that doesn't change the fact that his wins pretty much trounced the industry standard hits vs. misses ratio.

Did other people do some of the work? Probably. Isn't it that way across the board and has been since time began... not even just in the music biz but every other industry as well, of course.


In no way will I say Ron did a wonderful job running Geffen but credit should go where credit is due when it comes to his overall career. If those other people with the sour grapes didn't get the credit for the work they did then guess what, THEY SUCK AT BUSINESS. Grow some balls and get your credit. It took Ron a couple of decades to figure that point out, you can too.

The funny part of it all is how even the people that know him personally and like him, can't dispute the negative things being said about him. I'm reading everyone's postings and laughing my ass off.

All of the stuff you said is a given and shouldn't surprise anyone.

[b] Geffen was over as a label years ago, and I have always maintained that once Eddie Rosenblatt and the people David placed there were gone, it was a joke to continue to use the Geffen name. No one could save that label, but based on his
track record, I cannot fault anyone for giving Ron a shot.

I do remember hearing about Ron and his Slumber Party Girls group. He told the girls they would be huge stars. He was trying to capitalize off the group PCD and make a younger version of them. The show was geared toward preteens and ran on sat mornings on CBS. It tanked. Songs were written by his then girlfriend now wife.