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#669889 - 08/21/09 01:54 PM CRB rate for on-demand streaming
QueenSheDevilCow
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Does anyone know the CRB (Copyright Royalty Board) statutory rate for on-demand streaming? Does such a rate exist?

Note: I'm referring *on-demand* streaming here, not the widely-dicussed internet broadcast rate that affects companies like Pandora.

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#669901 - 08/21/09 02:37 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: QueenSheDevilCow]
skibrock
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I do not believe there is a stat rate for streaming. My experience has just been a % of Net Receipts for streaming.
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#669909 - 08/21/09 03:30 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: skibrock]
DieterK
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The last thing the labels want is a statuory rate for on-demand streaming of their sound recordings.

The terms for the use of the songs were negotiated last year between NMPA, RIAA & DiMa. For their rights (mechanical reproduction & distribution) the publishers/songwriters get 10,5% of the revenues of the services, minus the amount payable to ASCAP/BMI/SESAC.


http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2008/09/...oyalty-dispute/

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#669917 - 08/21/09 04:30 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: DieterK]
QueenSheDevilCow
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OK, I see. This is a negotiated amount due to the publisher/songwriter. I was confused and assuming that there was a statutory rate for the label (or for whoever owns the recordings).

I guess they'll just have to be content with a share of the non-existent revenues earned by Spotify and the like \:\)

Forgive my ignorance, but based on the article you linked. The only statutory rates are for non-interactive streaming and that goes to the performer/label?

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#669920 - 08/21/09 04:45 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: QueenSheDevilCow]
skibrock
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The only statutory rates I'm aware of from the CRB are for Ringtones/ringbacks.
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#669924 - 08/21/09 04:54 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: DieterK]
nycbiscuit
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Actually, there is this complex calculated statutory rate.

It's the lesser of $.15 per subscriber month vs.
10.5% of revenue and if pass thru license, 18% of service royalty expense for label, if not pass thru, 22% of service royalty expense for label, less PRO amounts.

see http://harryfox.com/docs/HFARoyaltyRatePR10-2-08.pdf

I've asked Harry Fox to explain it, show me a sample calculation. They don't even know.

Most smaller labels don't have direct deals with all the digital service providers. I've only worked with one indie that had some direct deals and therefore was privy to subscriber numbers by month.

I've asked aggregators like IODA what they plan to do to help labels make this calculation. I've asked Fontana.

No one understands this crap. No one is going to pay something they can't figure out.

If anyone here wants to take a crack at it, I'd really be indebted and appreciative.
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#669926 - 08/21/09 05:05 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: QueenSheDevilCow]
DieterK
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 Originally Posted By: QueenSheDevilCow
OK, I see. This is a negotiated amount due to the publisher/songwriter. I was confused and assuming that there was a statutory rate for the label (or for whoever owns the recordings).

I guess they'll just have to be content with a share of the non-existent revenues earned by Spotify and the like \:\)

Forgive my ignorance, but based on the article you linked. The only statutory rates are for non-interactive streaming and that goes to the performer/label?


The "non-existent revenues" are the reason why the labels invested in YouTube & Spotify. They made a lot of money when Google bought YouTube and now they are hoping someone comes along and buys Spotify.

There are statutory rates for the use of sound recordings by non-interactive services (Webcasts & Satellite radio), but there is also the possibility to negotiate the rates directly between the services and the labels (RIAA). The CRB has to approve these private deals.

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#669932 - 08/21/09 05:32 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: DieterK]
QueenSheDevilCow
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That's funny. I didn't realize that the labels bought a piece of YouTube before the sale. Oh what a tangled web...

I guess they realized that they can make more money from pumping and dumping instead of killing off every new music tech startup.

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#669942 - 08/21/09 06:31 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: QueenSheDevilCow]
nycbiscuit
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Here's the rub. Everyone is agreeing to these new models just to see what sticks to the wall. No one really knows if ad supported streaming makes sense because those entities that are paying don't represent a large enough sample to see how it might work in Future Dream Land where this is commonplace.

I see more royalty statements with hundredths or thousandths of a penny paid per track to the label. And they are supposed to pay a mechanical out of that? You can't survive. But you keep telling yourself that when the user base finally gets into the hundreds of millions of users instead of the 3 or 4 million current users that it will change,
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#669963 - 08/21/09 08:11 PM Re: CRB rate for on-demand streaming [Re: DieterK]
RopeDope
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 Originally Posted By: nybiscuit
Actually, there is this complex calculated statutory rate.

It's the lesser of $.15 per subscriber month vs.
10.5% of revenue and if pass thru license, 18% of service royalty expense for label, if not pass thru, 22% of service royalty expense for label, less PRO amounts.

see http://harryfox.com/docs/HFARoyaltyRatePR10-2-08.pdf

I've asked Harry Fox to explain it, show me a sample calculation. They don't even know.

Most smaller labels don't have direct deals with all the digital service providers. I've only worked with one indie that had some direct deals and therefore was privy to subscriber numbers by month.

I've asked aggregators like IODA what they plan to do to help labels make this calculation. I've asked Fontana.

No one understands this crap. No one is going to pay something they can't figure out.

If anyone here wants to take a crack at it, I'd really be indebted and appreciative.


The way that rate for non-interactive streaming is to be calculated and paid is being worked out right now between HFA, the music publishers and various digital music services. yes they intend to pay under the rate calcuation. Many of them have already (by terms of the settlement).

The U.S. Copyright Office recently asked several interested parties to advise them how they think the rules on Statements of Accounts should be amended to accommodate the new royalty calculations.

 Originally Posted By: DieterK
There are statutory rates for the use of sound recordings by non-interactive services (Webcasts & Satellite radio), but there is also the possibility to negotiate the rates directly between the services and the labels (RIAA). The CRB has to approve these private deals.


This is not accurate. The CRB does not approve any private deals between sound recording owners (the labels) and services. Those deals go on all the time and are never submitted. Indeed, most of them are under confidentiality provisions.

The CRB has to approve STATUTORY deals between Soundexchange, as the body that has been empowered by the government to collect all royalties (other than those that are privately negotiated), that occur as part of the rate-setting proceedings. When Soundexchange makes a deal on behalf of all of its members with a certain service or class of services, then that is, effectively a statutory rate. That type of agreement must be submitted to the CRB for approval and publication (or, if under the Webcaster Settlement Act, directly to the Copyright Office for publication).


Edited by RopeDope (08/22/09 09:13 PM)
Edit Reason: deleted innacurate information

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