|
|
#699690 - 02/08/10 10:44 PM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: Bill Lumbergh]
|
BananasFoster
Member
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 66
|
Offline
|
|
Polygram at that time had the best back end systems and customer service and if I remember correctly they had just come off winning the NARM Large Dist. award 2 or three years in a row when UNI as it was then called, took over. Those were the Caparro years. Caparro later became part of a group that bought the warehouses and systems of --well the name escapes me. The intention was consolidate all of the back end shipping etc. for all of the majors thru his company. Obviously there were insurmountable obstacles to that, but I recall one of the majors started to take on some tertiary mfg for one of the others.
In regards to BMG being superior at that time -uhhh not so much.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699702 - 02/08/10 11:41 PM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: goldears]
|
Crunch!
Silver Member
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 393
|
|
Offline
|
|
Collectors Choice and Wounded Bird are already the defacto catalog division of WMG. Collectors Choice has a good relationship with EMI. All the catalog you could want that has been too small for Rhino to deal with in in good hands.
These two labels are an argument for illegal downloading. What's the point in buying badly remastered reissues that have no liner notes, bonus tracks or even decent artwork reproduction?
Collectibles at least tries sometimes, although they've done their share of single panel insert artwork themselves.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699704 - 02/08/10 11:49 PM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: Bill Lumbergh]
|
nycbiscuit
Diamond Member
Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 5598
|
|
Offline
|
|
WMGs accounting/IT has had a terrible reputation for years, and although I know they've been trying, I don't think they've been too successful upgrading. I could be wrong, but EMI could have the better of the 2 systems. As for distro, at least in other foreign territories, EMI already outsourced to WMG. Citi, I'd imagine, would give away the label side to just about anybody who'd have it. All they care about is the pub.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699705 - 02/08/10 11:56 PM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: Crunch!]
|
Crunch!
Silver Member
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 393
|
|
Offline
|
|
I see WMG eating EMI when the time is right - they want it and I would guess most non-music entities are frightened by the spectacular failure of Hands' attempt, although mobile co's or even Apple might be dark horses.
WMG didn't fail with the Ryko deal - there was nothing there in the first place. They overpaid for it because ego's got in the way and they wanted to keep it away from EMI, who were the other major suitors. Espo & Ryko crew sold WMG a bill of goods that Ryko would add something to their distro operation, but anyone with two weeks worth of foresight and a view of the Ryko operation could see it was going to be only a matter of time before Ryko was shuttered.
I don't see an EMI/WMG merger being anything other than a full ingestion - no individual label "legs" - just a handfull of meaningful EMI acts (a SMALL handful) ported over to WMG and the catalog integrated into the new WMG catalog model.
EMI's euro operations are meaningful to WMG, which has never done too well over there, but I suspect that EMI's rich history as a British company would be coming to an inglorious end as much of the infastructure there that isn't distro geared would be unnecessary.
EMI's much-vaunted systems are a mess - good in theory, a disaster in reality. Lots of bells & whistles. Warners practical applications are miles ahead - they can ingest digital fairly well for instance - something EMI still strugglles with on a global level.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699713 - 02/09/10 12:20 AM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: Crunch!]
|
outahere
Gold Member
Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 894
|
|
Offline
|
|
Collectors Choice and Wounded Bird are already the defacto catalog division of WMG. Collectors Choice has a good relationship with EMI. All the catalog you could want that has been too small for Rhino to deal with in in good hands. These two labels are an argument for illegal downloading. What's the point in buying badly remastered reissues that have no liner notes, bonus tracks or even decent artwork reproduction? Collectibles at least tries sometimes, although they've done their share of single panel insert artwork themselves.
Amen to that brother!
All of them poop out cookie cutter crap like so many rabbit pellets. And then WMG takes those shitty sounding versions and flogs them to iTunes.
It's tragic to see the Warner/Atlantic/Elektra catalogs treated this way.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699728 - 02/09/10 01:38 AM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: teverett]
|
Freddy
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 1069
Loc: geographically independent
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks for the heads up, tev. A good summary; for those interested in reading, here is the link.
Mostly old news except for this:
In a sworn statement filed last week, Mr. Hands said Mr. Klein arranged for him to meet with Charles Prince, then Citis chief executive, to discuss the deal in New York five days before the closing. Shortly afterward, Mr. Hands said, Mr. Klein set up a telephone call between Terra Firmas founder and Edgar Bronfman Jr., C.E.O. of the Warner Music Group.
Mr. Hands said in his statement that he made the call to Mr. Bronfman because he eventually wanted to merge EMI with Warner Music.
First time I've heard this of statement - or specific mention that this endgame was in the cards from day minus five. If anyone happens upon it, I'd like to take a look.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699729 - 02/09/10 01:38 AM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: outahere]
|
Danhedonia
Diamond Member
Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 3652
Loc: ABQ
|
|
Offline
|
|
Where does it all end? Bankruptcy? Maybe. Maybe not.
The real issue is the blowback from the investment games of the mid-'00's.
Lots of next-gen Trumps thought they'd leverage their way to icon status with the cheap money Greenspan sprinkled around.
You buy an asset (or seven); put together a PowerPoint that says "the value of this ball of twine is so much more than the value of the individual pieces of twine, now that it's all in one big ball."
And investors believe you. Whether they are naive, incompetent, cynically giving you enough rope ... is irrelevant, really, when the magic day comes and the check is cashed.
They showed you the money.
And in the great tradition of the robber barons before you, you pocketed quite a bit of it, under the aegis of "structured capital" and "equity valuation" and ... well.
And never mind the man behind the curtain, seeking his interest payments. Or perhaps just some sign that the ton of money given to you in exchange for X% of the ball of twine is, well, more than just shitty bits of twine.
Until one day the money runs out.
Uh oh.
EMI to WMG? Oh, my. Of COURSE ... of course. The pieces with a drop of blood left. Then? See: above.
Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699734 - 02/09/10 02:30 AM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: Danhedonia]
|
Freddy
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 1069
Loc: geographically independent
|
|
Offline
|
|
Hey Dan - Very happy to see you here rather than wasting time with the bogus quest. I know we're all here for some measure of entertainment, but I wish folks would stop bumping stupid threads.
Likewise it's fun to opine and engage in wishful thinking with matters such as EMI/Citibank. But when we take ourselves somewhat seriously, we can provide a central repository of facts. I've been following and trying to engage in the related threads to that extent. Sometimes simply parking links; I appreciate those who roll other cars into the lot. I would not be surprised if we are on some concerned parties' reading lists.
To admit some wishful thinking on my part: while this is presumably a battle between A and B, it also involves party C - and that's us. Sooner or later A and B may shoot each other in both of their feet - and that's where some of us may find grounds to pounce. To wit: the call between Hands and Eddie Jr. hints of collusion, all along.
At some point a disgruntled stake-holder, a terminated exec, a band who wishes to shred their contract, etc. may arise from this muck with its own natty suit. And that's when it's gonna get good.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699751 - 02/09/10 05:52 AM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: Danhedonia]
|
rockwidow
Diamond Member
Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 2604
Loc: down in the boondocks
|
|
Offline
|
|
Freddy,
some other thread awhile back, got into discussion about why Citi would ask the court to kick this case over to England. And another thread raised a question about what TF acknowledged concerning limits on liability that Citi would use to guard itself here.
This link expounds further on these matters:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25560937/Citigroup-s-Motion-to-Dismiss-Terra-Firma-s-EMI-lawsuit
This is a fairly well grounded motion, and it would not be surprising if the NY federal court gives the case the boot.
Where does it all end? Bankruptcy? Maybe. Maybe not.
Not. EMI is not on the hook for the loan, TF is. TF wont file. It will just give the keys to Citi. Or Citi sues. If TF could use bankruptcy to reorganize debt, and retain EMI control, Citi would have been more amenable to Guy's outreach last fall.
_________________________
Fuck if I know, fuck if I care and then, the nugget of intellectual shorthand, fuck the world!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#699759 - 02/09/10 12:17 PM
Re: WMG and EMI - Taking bets....
[Re: outahere]
|
goldears
Diamond Member
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 2880
Loc: the world of tomorrow
|
|
Offline
|
|
Collectors Choice and Wounded Bird are already the defacto catalog division of WMG. Collectors Choice has a good relationship with EMI. All the catalog you could want that has been too small for Rhino to deal with in in good hands. These two labels are an argument for illegal downloading. What's the point in buying badly remastered reissues that have no liner notes, bonus tracks or even decent artwork reproduction? Collectibles at least tries sometimes, although they've done their share of single panel insert artwork themselves. Amen to that brother! All of them poop out cookie cutter crap like so many rabbit pellets. And then WMG takes those shitty sounding versions and flogs them to iTunes. It's tragic to see the Warner/Atlantic/Elektra catalogs treated this way.
It doesn't hurt to be a little pragmatic here. Wounded Bird is the most guilty of the lot but you have to give them credit for putting out an endless stream of stuff whose sales figures look like area codes but has cult followings. Granted, for their price points they could try a little harder but the manufacturing is done by Warners and their add on costs might not make it worthwhile. Also, a lot of their titles are mastered from albums.
Collectibles packaging is all over the map. Leave out their cheap line and you generally get a pretty good product. They keep an eye on the bottom line and the a&r is wildly eclectic veering from Keith Jarrett to Chi Coltrane with a heavy affinity for doo wop. Once they've assayed the bottom line, they can be pretty open minded and have let their liner note writers (yeah, full disclosure here--did it) run pretty wild for pay.
Collectors Choice is about as good as it gets if you aren't old school Rhino, Raven, Bear Family or Hip-O Select/Motown (talking to you Jimi). Warners won't give them bonus tracks and a lot of the masters are the masters WMG provides having already used them for English reisssues on WSM in England. They also have newly written liner notes by goldears, teverett, Richie Unterberger, Gene Sculatti and Jim Ritz among others who all seem to be uber geeks in their chosen areas. The type could be bigger, but oh, those WMG add on costs for longer booklets (sigh). I'd enthuse here about Dusty Groove and Reel but they seem to be functioning as Hip-O Select Cult and that would be off topic since this is about WEMI.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: JGFlash
|
|
